An interview with Sakagami Sensei on Masahiro Yanagawa Sensei
Written by Peter May (6th Dan)
Peter May
Sensei when did you first hear about Yanagawa Sensei and what was your initial impression?
Sakagami
I purchased Yanagawa Sensei’s first publication entitled Karate-No-Ri, but I first met him in Japan at the 1990 JKF Wado-Kai Executive meeting. Karate-No-Ri was very different to any karate related publication that I had previously read providing a complete contrast to the stereotypical karate-do book, and as a result it differentiated Yanagawa Sensei from the mainstream karateka.
PM
What is Yanagawa Sensei's martial arts background?
Sakagami
Yanagawa Sensei told me he first started learning Karate from his brother as a youth. He basically copied his brother’s actions and started by hitting the makiwara. When he left school he went to study Chemistry at Tokyo University in 1957 and it was here he was to practice Wado Karate and I believe, at that time, Grandmaster Ohtsuka was the Shihan.
PM
Yanagawa Sensei’s karate is different to any other Instructor’s style from that era. Why did he change?
Sakagami
Yanagawa Sensei told me the turning point for him to change to Budo karate started when he attended a demonstration of Aikido by Tohei Koichi, around 1970. He was so impressed by Tohei that on viewing the demonstration, he realised that there were things missing from modern day karate and decided to study, and research, Budo karate.
PM
I have just finished watching Yanagawa Sensei’s new DVD where he demonstrates un-orthodox take downs, ground work, lock ups and escapes. What is your opinion on the footage?
Sakagami
Yes, I have seen the DVD. He [Yanagawa] says that Budo karate is not only kicks and punches as it shares techniques and movement with other Martial Arts. His Budo style is different to the normal stereotyped Karate that we know. Also, Yanagawa sensei told me that he wasn’t shocked or surprised by the effectiveness of Gracie Ju Jitsu as those were the techniques that the Japanese Ju Jutsuka used to use over 100 years ago.
“Japanese Ju-jutsuka used those techniques over 100 years ago”
PM
Yanagawa is off small stature yet he generates so much power in his kicking and punching. The way he performs the techniques is again different from a lot of Instructors from that era how do you view that?
Sakagami
A lot of people have asked Yanagawa Sensei how he generates so much power because even for a Japanese man he is quite small. He said he used to train extremely hard when he was younger, facing the makiwara for hours on end, pushing himself physically and some people said he was crazy to train the way he did. But like most young athletes he wasn’t thinking about how he was developing his power and energy scientifically, he just trained and trained and eventually realised that training the way he was, kicking and punching, makiwara training, and lifting the weights without understanding the body mechanics and knowledge of which part of the body was being utilised, was limiting his technical development. This realisation came around the time that he saw the Ki Aikido demonstration.
PM
Yanagawa now describes his Wado karate as Budo karate. Can you give me your thoughts on this?
Sakagami
Of course. When Grand Master Ohtsuka first came to England in 1968 I heard him say “It’s no use teaching students my karate so I only teach them what they can understand”. At the time I didn’t really understand what he meant but looking back I now understand completely. I believe what he was trying to say was that teaching students the karate that you want to teach, but that they will not understand, is a waste of everyone’s time, so it is the job of the instructor to make the concepts student-friendly keeping them simple so that they can be appreciated. Yanagawa Sensei calls his karate Budo Karate but he insists it is based upon Grandmaster Ohtsuka’s karate. This suggests that Yanagawa Sensei practices an extended form of Grand Master Ohtsuka’s mainstream teachings and has developed some elements through his personal study of many things, including the Japanese Noh.
“Yanagawa sensei told me he did a lot of crazy things in his younger days”
PM
On the night we visited Yanagawa Sensei’s Dojo I was impressed by his footwork and although it shares the same ashi names as most Wado he performed it differently, what did you observe?
Sakagami
Yes he did perform them differently but it is difficult to understand. When you look at his movement initially it appears a little odd. I often think about how he manages to perform techniques with great force using this unusual-looking motion. There are many questions that I wish to ask about this very subject when he visits us later this year, but I think to understand his footwork and movement you have to understand how he studied it. Yanagawa Sensei told me that he did a lot of crazy things in his younger days. He would often test himself to see how far he could run at maximum speed. 100 metre sprinters can maybe run flat out for what, 300 metres before running out of steam and he would test his own abilities this way. He also tested his stance and pushing strength by standing in front of a small, mini type, car and pushing on it whist the car was driven towards him in low gear. The whole of his life he appears to have been searching for something different and all though this may have been viewed as a little crazy he was trying to push himself to his physical limit, understand his body, and learn the most effective methods of transforming his internal energy to power.
PM
Yanagawa Sensei’s delivery of kicks and punches are different to your normal type of Karate technique; the approach angle being significant in his work. I feel that considering the angle of attack is Wado in style. What do you think about this?
Sakagami
Yes it is all in the style of Wado, and that’s exactly what he [Yanagawa] said, but the majority of students in karate have forgotten the importance of this and how it affects the energy input, initial impact, energy wave, the aftermath, the recovery of the technique and its overall effectiveness.
PM
I believe Yanagawa Sensei also trained with the Monks of the Mogami Mountains?
Sakagami
Yes, he did because the Monks are mentally and physically tough. I believe that the Mogami Monks are more like the warriors of old. As they are Monks they do not fight but they do test themselves mentally, physically and spiritually. These tests can include daily marathon walks or standing under waterfalls that flow freezing cold water from the mountains. The ice cold temperatures and the force of the water is extremely hard mental training, where they reach such a high mental state, however I have never done it myself! Most people would give up before 2 minutes but the Mogami Monks stay under the waterfall for significantly longer. Yanagawa trained with the Monks to test himself yet further.
“Because you have disturbed your opponents timing their strike will not be as powerful”
PM
Yanagawa believes there is a connection between Budo Karate and Japanese Noh can you tell me more about this?
Sakagami
I only know a little about this but I believe it is to do with posture and that probably in the past the Samurai would watch the Noh plays, not just for entertainment, but as a learning tool. They would have studied the posture and movement in the Noh play because their movement was so smooth, with no noise. In terms of Budo it was probably posture and stance that Noh had most in common with martial arts, not just karate.
My impression is that Yanagawa has also made a connection between Noh and Budo karate in recent years and again I would like to quiz Yanagawa Sensei on this part of his study during his visit. By-the-way, he always finishes his courses with a question and answer session and this part of the course is truly amazing as his answers are so deep. For example, at one of his seminars a student told him that in his free-fighting he was always scared, that he felt like a coward when he was facing an opponent and that he would freeze when under pressure. The student proceeded to ask Yanagawa Sensei was there anything he could do to overcome this fear; of course I know a lot of students feel this way about fighting but his answer was so good that I will tell you some of it. “When you first get hit obviously it hurts, but how much it hurts is dependant on timing. If the person who is striking you is good and their timing is also good then of course it will hurt, but if you can make their timing bad the good technique will be wasted and it will not hurt so much. But because a lot of people are apprehensive in fighting they just move backwards so sooner or later your opponent will catch up and will hit you with a hard technique which will obviously hurt.
So if you are going to get hit at least get hit going forwards, only don’t just go forward, the moment the punch comes whatever the direction, turn your head and let him hit you. Because you have disturbed your opponents timing it will not be as powerful and it will not hurt as much. Yanagawa Sensei said that he learned this when he was at the university club in his first and second year where he realised that during free-fighting with his seniors he should never go backwards but always forward regardless of the situation having found that when he went forward and got hit it didn’t hurt so much. This was just a small part of his original answer to the student’s question but shows his quite thorough answers.
PM
What do you feel students can expect from training with Yanagawa Sensei?
Sakagami
Yanagawa Sensei’s aim is to explain the real difference between sports karate and Budo karate, so Budo karate, as he said, is the movement of the body and how to use it to maximise its potential. He says wild animals naturally do this, they don’t have to train to use it, and they do it instinctively generating speed and power. Of course we are not wild animals so we have lost, through evolution, the knowledge of how to use our bodies as they do. But as Yanagawa says, through observing and studying nature we can learn something about the instinctive movements that we have lost. Unfortunately I cannot give a straight answer to what his Budo karate is about, but that is one of the reasons we are bringing him over, so that he can show us what it is about and for him to answer some of our questions.
I feel like I understand what it is about inside but I am finding it difficult to describe it to other people. Yanagawa Sensei is currently one of the martial artists who are in high demand on the Japanese martial arts seminar circuit, instructing many different styles including Vale Tudo, Ju-Jitsu, Aikido and all styles of karate. He is a regular contributor to the prestigious Japanese Martial Arts magazine “Hi-Den” (Hi –secret), (Den -techniques passed on from generation to generation). I am hoping students of all grades will come and train with an open mind on Yanagawa Sensei’s November course. But I feel that I have to limit the age to 14 and above because of the depth of what will be taught and I feel a certain maturity will be required to learn Yanagawa Sensei’s Budo karate. Irrespective of grade or style every student should be able to learn something new and experience something that is truly unique.
PM
Thank you Sensei.
Sakagami
You are welcome.